Matthew Modine gives a solid performance as Mac, a grief-stricken man tortured by his past who has a chance to help one kid reclaim his future. But Wheeler doesn’t stop there and sell this great story short. Instead, he loads up the rest of this high-stakes drama with a cast of exceptional actors all the way down to the day players.

Matthew Modine as Mac

To me, “The Trial” is actually a lot like the cool Christian kid from High School with whom you could actually hangout and be seen with and not embarrassed to introduce to your friends. And for that we thank you, Gary Wheeler and Team.

Wired4Film had a chance to catch up with Gary after the film’s premiere in Davidson, NC and pick his Writerly-Directorly brain.

WIRED4FILM: Congratulations on a beautiful and moving film, Gary. You’ve got a lot to be proud of on this one. Tell the truth now, are you secretly writing Academy Award speeches? You know, “just in case”?

GARY WHEELER: Thanks David, glad you liked it. I think I stopped prepping Oscar speeches when I turned 16.

W4F: Hm.  Well I’m on the 42nd draft of my Oscar speech and I still feel like I’m leaving something out — like actually making a film, perhaps.  Anyway, back to “The Trial”, do you think you accomplished every goal you set out for on this film?

GARY WHEELER: I think our main goals were to make a film that was both artistically excellent and spiritually powerful. I think we did the best job we could at both. To Kill a Mockingbird is my favorite film of all time and I really wanted to make this film as an homage to that as well.

W4F: How long has this journey taken you from the writing phase to the funding to the pre-pro to the production and post?

GARY WHEELER: It all runs together, but I think we started the adaptation in the Spring of 2008 and finished it by the end of the year. In July of 2008, we had a commitment of full funding and began casting in Feb 2009. At the last minute, we lost our funding and started over. We raised the rest of the funds and began principal photography mid-October – mid-November. We “locked picture” in January and did the final mix in April. So, it was about a 24 month process.

W4F: Can you talk a bit about the Cinematography of the film headed by Tom Priestly?

GARY WHEELER: Tom is a good friend/mentor and this was our second film together. He has done some very big iconic films in his career and it’s great to work with someone of his experience.

W4F: Were there films you both screened in preparation for “The Trial” to inspire a particular look and feel?

GARY WHEELER: We watched A LOT of courtroom movies: To Kill a Mockingbird, A Few Good Men, The Verdict, The Rainmaker, Runaway Jury. Tom has done five films with Sidney Lumet so I think The Verdict was the most similar.

W4F: What lead ultimately to your choice to shoot with the RED Camera?

GARY WHEELER: Why did we shoot with the RED? Money! Just kidding.

It does save a lot of time (and time is money) in production and post. It allows you to move faster through the editing process and save money on film stock, etc.  We used two cameras for about half of the shoot, including all of the courtroom scenes.

W4F: Some of your camera moves seemed rather complex moving/dolly shots that pay off beautifully on-screen. How/when do you as Director choose to move the camera within a scene?

GARY WHEELER: Tom and I always say that if the camera isn’t moving we want someone moving in the frame and if someone isn’t moving in the frame than the visual better be interesting. So we try to keep it moving… it’s called motion pictures right?

I think on this film, more than any I’ve done, we tried to move for dramatic effect. The courtroom setting allows for that pretty well.

Bob Gunton and Matthew Modine in "The Trial"

W4F: I know there was some 11th hour casting going on for the part of Mac, played by Matthew Modine? Can you tell us that story because within it, the entire film almost unravels a couple of times, right?

GARY WHEELER: Matthew is a great guy and a good friend. He was #1 on our list of choices but wasn’t available because he was doing a play when we originally planned to shoot the film. Two weeks before we were set to open our production offices, a portion of our funds fell through. A LARGE portion. So we started over and when we were ready to go again (six months later), he was available – eight days before we were ready to shoot! It’s pretty stressful and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone else.

He was an invaluable collaborator on all of the creative elements of the film and he even saw the very earliest cut of the movie and made some suggestions. He really is a great and talented guy.

W4F: I read that this is your second chance working with Robert Whitlow who wrote the novel, “The List.”  What were some of the challenges/opportunities in working with a screen adaptation of a best-selling novel?

GARY WHEELER: Robert’s great and above all he writes good stories that are easily translatable to the big screen. I am one of the biggest fans of the novels that we have adapted. If I weren’t, I wouldn’t have the passion to keep making the films.

The basics of the THE TRIAL as a novel are that it is a tight courtroom drama which is what we decided to focus on for the adaptation. What I like to say is that 80% of the movie is from the book but that represents about 20% of the novel.

We basically turned a 450 page novel into a 95 page script. Not easy. But we worked off a great screenwriting model called Save The Cat by Blake Snyder. It really helped. We focused on Mac’s story and what it takes to overcome immense grief. With that in mind, Robert really wanted to heighten that grief so we made Mac a little more miserable at the beginning of the movie and put a little more tension between he and Ray than what was in the novel.

W4F:  Alright now, Wheeler, you know I gotta meddle just a smidge and back-seat direct for a sec so here it is…script-wise I think I have only two regrets: One is that apart from the opening scene where he almost commits suicide, all that angst gets buried somehow until the very end at his low point when it all bubbles up to the surface on your emotional 2-minute dolly shot. We revisited it subtly a couple of times with Dr. Anna Wilkes, but never as overtly as the first scene…was that intentional? Secondly, do you feel like you missed a chance at throwing in some action sequences by not peppering Act II with blurred out scenes of the night in question with the two cars, the crime, etc? Or was that a more obvious budget choice?

GARY WHEELER: Ha! Everybody’s a critic David!

Sure, I would obviously change a few things with every movie I’ve made but I think I’d change the least about THE TRIAL. We did have both the crime and Mac’s original accident in versions of the script but ultimately we went a little more subtle and the movie moves really fast anyway.

I think the budget affects everything and if we had more money, which would mean more shooting days we would probably have added Mac’s accident. As for revisiting the angst, I don’t know. Maybe? We do have him visit the graves repeatedly; have him reflect at the prison; talk with his assistant, etc.

The exciting thing as a filmmaker is that this film get’s treated seriously and like “a real movie”. People ask questions and have opinions about it. That is great!

I mean I had the same kind of questions about INCEPTION – which I loved.

W4F: Fair enough.  So, what was it you mentioned about Fox sending you a list of 80 people they thought could play the role of Mac? How were they involved in your development process? Were there special hoops you had to go through with them to ensure their distribution of the DVD?

GARY WHEELER: This is our second 20th Century Fox film and the process was really simple and easy. We sent them the script and they gave us some notes which we incorporated (it helped the film). They also weighed in on cast (we all wanted Matthew from the start) and then they jump in with the marketing etc. It’s pretty easy and painless! I have a very good relationship with the Senior Vice President of Acquisitions for Home Entertainment which helps of course.

W4F: Speaking of money, in a world where filmmakers are putting productions together with shoestring and bubblegum and tinfoil, you actually had a budget! That’s crazy talk! How does that happen exactly? And was that an “investors” thing or a “donations” route or lots of car washes or what?

GARY WHEELER: It was all investors. They are friends of ours and jumped in with both feet. The key is to manage the budget in a wise way. Spend money in the right places and treat everyone fairly.

W4F: How often does Gary Wheeler the Producer clash on set with Gary Wheeler the Director? Is it difficult wearing both those hats? Not to mention Gary Wheeler the writer who’s all: “Hey, that’s not the line, Modine! Say it like I wrote it!”

GARY WHEELER: The three Gary Wheeler’s rarely argue because Gary Wheeler – the Producer always wins! That’s a hard hat to take off and when you know every investor personally, you don’t want to waste time or money so you find creative ways to solve problems. It’s a pretty liberating feeling but it is hard to be the lead Producer and the Director. On our next Whitlow film, I’m just producing which is exciting to me.

W4F: I know you get a lot of scripts and story solicitations across your desk…how is it you go about choosing each of your projects? What is it about them that has to grab you? Specifically what is it about “The Trial” that made you think you’d like to spend the next year of your life making that into a film?

GARY WHEELER: For me it is all about communicating hope. I want to make movies that are hopeful and that is what attracted me to the novel THE TRIAL. I knew it would leave audiences feeling good when they left. I also knew it would be a good next step after THE LIST.

W4F: How is it you go about blocking your scenes? Are you a storyboarder? Or do you just know what you want on set or do you have to sorta feeeeeeel it out the day of? How does that process work for you and how do you involve your actors in that?

GARY WHEELER: I work very closely with Tom Priestley and we shot list about 80-90% of the film. It’s a place to start but you obviously want to give the actors room to breathe.

In the courtroom scenes we would remove everyone except for the cast and the crew department heads. We would rehearse the scenes a few times so that the cast could get comfortable and then we’d decide on our first shot and move forward. It is a pretty quick and efficient process.

W4F: So I understand you’ve gotten a DVD distribution deal with 20th Century Fox for a November 2010 release, but my question is, if “Hot Tub Time Machine” can get into the theaters, why isn’t “The Trial” on 3000 screens across the U.S.? I mean, certainly as more theaters go digital, isn’t this process getting cheaper and/or easier?

GARY WHEELER: It will get cheaper and easier but that will happen over time. We feel very fortunate with the deal we have. Our plan is to start in NC and go wider theatrically from there and the DVD will happen before the end of the year.

W4F: You really did pull off a very delicate balance of tension against humor, darkness vs hope, strong themes but not preachy, etc. How is it you walk that line so well?

Matthew Modine, Randy Wayne and Nikki Deloach in "The Trial"

GARY WHEELER: I think you can chalk that up to the screenplay and the casting. The script really turned out to be a very tight story and we ended up getting a great cast from top to bottom. We also tried to have strong character arcs for a lot of the cast. For example, Bob Gunton’s character is a lot more well rounded that might be typical in this type of story.

Even though we had Matthew Modine, Bob Forster and Bob Gunton we had people like Nikki Deloach and Danny Vinson to add some humor.

W4F: After a production surrounded by so many crew and location headaches, etc, do you look forward to kicking back in an edit room for a couple months to cut the film together? Is the film in fact being cut while you’re in production so you can reference scenes and footage immediately or do you separate the two so you can be completely present at both?

GARY WHEELER: Post production moved really fast and efficient. I had an editor and assistant editor cutting the whole time we shot. They brought me scenes on set; I made notes and they re-cut. One week after principal photography I was able to see a rough cut of the whole film.

This was my second film with Jonathan Olive (the editor) and we have a lot of trust so it moves faster.

W4F: You’ve also had some public screenings of the film already, too. What’s been the general reaction to the film and are there specific instances of feedback where people’s lives are being impacted by the actual story of healing and renewal and second chances and awesome acting and stellar camera work?

GARY WHEELER: We’ve had a lot of screenings around the world now and the reaction is almost always the same – “wow, that is a good movie.”. I haven’t quite figured out what it is yet and I’m not saying everyone loves it but the general reaction has been positive.

The cast almost always gets kudos and Matthew is so sympathetic and likeable that I think he sets the tone for the whole film.

W4F: I believe it was Whitlow that quoted Modine as saying that this was one of the “most peaceful sets he’d ever worked on.” What did that mean and how was that accomplished? Forced nap times, like in Kindergarden, or what?

GARY WHEELER: I just am not a big fan of yellers and yelling. So we keep it pretty peaceful; laugh a lot and make sure that people are enjoying themselves.

I feel like it is my job to create a peaceful environment for creative people to create. The rest takes care of itself.

W4F: And, fertile myrtle, I understand that you’ve already got another film in development. Are you ideally tackling a film per year or is it just working out that way? Are you trying to give Tyler Perry a run for his money? Talk to us about this next project of yours.

GARY WHEELER: I think they teach you in filmmaker school to say “I have several projects in various stages of development”. So I could say that as well but we do have a script ready for the next Robert Whitlow adaptation – JIMMY. We plan on shooting it soon. I will produce and Mark Freiburger (one of the Producers on THE TRIAL) will be directing.

It too is a great story and the script is really powerful.

W4F: Thanks again, Gary for taking time out to talk with Wired4Film.

###

We are pleased to announce that THE TRIAL will be released nationally on DVD November 9, 2010. The DVD, released by 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, will be available at all major retailers and video rental stores.

For a great deal (and to support a great company), you can pre-order the film at
http://www.christiancinema.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3495

Anyway, he graciously splayed open that Kevin Spacey-like noggin of his and laid bare the mysteries of the acting universe.  Mysteries which we pass on to you now!

WIRED4FILM: Hi Gary, thanks for taking some time out of your schedule to talk to Wired4Film.  We’ve explored filmmaking from a variety of angles, but not yet from the Actor’s unique persepective.  So let’s dive right in.  Talk to us a little bit about your background.  How’d you get started in “the biz”?

A current Gary Moore headshot

GARY MOORE: I grew up in Chicago always tagging along with my older sister, Debbie, who was a professional ventriloquist. She would perform all over the place and even on TV. When I was in second grade I remember wanting to get in the school play. I had so much fun performing that there wasn’t a school play I missed, except for the musicals because I can’t sing. Actually, in one college play I even played a non-singing guard in, “The Sound of Music.”

I followed a girl to college and one week before I left for school, I was offered a small role in a movie that was shooting in the Chicago area with the great star, Danny Kaye.  It was called; “Skokie” and I turned it down because I was leaving for college in one week. I often look back on that decision and wonder what would have happened if I had done that film instead.

I majored in acting throughout college and even helped pay my college tuition from traveling on a drama team for the school.

W4F: Okay, so you started out on the stage.  How does one move from stage to the screen?

GARY MOORE: After I graduated, I got married and moved out to San Francisco to start life. I had to get a real job to support my new wife and acting habit. As an actor, I was natural for sales jobs and excelled in them.

My heart was still yearning to act though, but I didn’t have time to do any stage work, so I thought well maybe I could do some commercials since they usually shoot in one day. Of course, I never had any training in front of a camera. I found a commercial acting class taught by, Jim Bressi, at Elite Modeling in downtown San Francisco. My wonderful mom, who has always supported my acting desire, paid for this class and I would take the BART to class every week.

Jim Bressi, was one of the original Marlboro Cowboys in modeling, however, he had extensive TV and film credits also. Jim had a major job taking me from the big acting of stage to the intimate acting for camera. To this day, he is my friend and supporter.  With his help, I landed an agent and started doing many commercials. Camera work is all about look and I guess I looked like the guys who worked in grocery stores because I did about every one of them.

W4F: There’s a lot of actor-hopefuls out there just waiting for their phone to ring for the big film that’s gonna put them opposite of Shia LaBeouf or Kate Beckinsale but they haven’t done the legwork yet.  It’s good to hear you talking about doing plays and Acting Classes and getting an agent and honing your craft, because I think that’s essential to every area of filmmaking.  Training.  Refining.

Anyway, just a little soapbox of mine, sorry.  Ahem…where were we?  Oh yeah, talk to us a little bit about the actor’s glam life.

GARY MOORE: As I was excelling in sales and making a pretty good living in California, I really wanted to venture into film work. One of my teachers from college called me and wanted me to audition for the lead role in a film he was working on named, “When Silence Speaks.” It was going to be shot in Tennessee, the same time Tom Cruise was filming, “The Firm.” I hired a camera crew to come to my nice business office and film my audition. I’m not sure how it looked, but it got me the role.

"The Trial" with Gary Moore

I remember driving up Highway 5 in California on my way to a sales meeting when I got the word!  I was so happy……..and suddenly so scared! As soon as I got home I went to Barnes & Noble and bought the first book I could find about camera acting. Fortunately, I picked up Tony Barr’s book, Acting for the Camera. It was perfect for my needs taking an actor from a stage background to his first day on a film set. After I read it cover to cover in one sitting, I noticed Mr. Barr taught the Film Actor’s Workshop in LA. I looked up the phone number and ten minutes later I was talking to him. I explained my situation and he referred me to his associate, Eric Kline, to work with personally. I sent the script to Eric and then spent a day or two with Eric just working through all the scenes. Eric has such a gift and love for actors that he turned me around so fast and I felt so much more comfortable.

After I shot that film, I landed a Host job on TV for many years, which took me out of the film world. Well, my TV Host job ended a couple of years ago so I’ve been able to dive back into my real love, which is film.

W4F: Nice.  I’ve seen your IMdb profile and some of your Facebook pics and see that you’ve met some great people along the way.  What has been some advice you’ve been given by other actors that really helped you along the way?  Things you’ve learned that you can pass along to the future DeNiro’s reading this article right now.

GARY MOORE: Tim Conway told me once that he didn’t want to do anything that he would have to apologize for later in his life. My mom told me something similar since I have four boys, telling me not to do anything I wouldn’t want my boys to watch.

Stand your ground and don’t do anything that goes against your conscience with God.

Here was some of Ronald Reagan’s advice from his acting days:

1. Always be on time on the set.

2. Know your lines.

3. Hit your marks.

Danny Trejo and Gary on set of The BIll Collector

I’ve taken that advice and to this day, I’ve always shown up early to sets, always known my lines and the other actors lines for that matter, and try to hit my marks every take. These producers and directors have spent a lot of time and money to get to the point where they are bringing in actors for filming and you don’t want to be responsible as the one who screwed up their shoot.

My acting coach, Eric Kline, has given me some wonderful advice over the years, but some of his best was using music to get me into the emotions I need for scenes. He taught me that there is nothing as fast as music to change your emotions……and I think he’s right. I find songs and music that go with my different scenes and have my headphones on the set when I’m between takes. It has helped me tremendously! Eric says the really good directors know this and will have the right music playing for everyone on the set, but I’ve yet to experience that so I bring my own.

Never talk trash about other people on set. I learned this the hard way on a commercial I did in California during the OJ Simpson Trial.  Between takes I was talking trash with the DP about a famous person in the trial who was trying to spring board his fame into an acting career for himself. Well suddenly the girl stormed off the set. I asked, “what’s up with her?” The crew informed me that she was currently dating that guy.  After I took my foot out of my mouth, I apologized and tried to never do that again.

Be a Christian on set, but don’t be “over-saved” as my comedian friend, Michael Jr., says. Not everyone is a Christian on set, even on Christian film sets. It will not help the cause of Christ to be preaching between takes. What will be noticed is that you act like a professional and don’t act like a prima donna.  On sets, your actions will speak louder than your words.

Let God be your casting director, it takes so much off of you. You will go to some auditions that the casting director will praise you up one wall and then next and you won’t get the job. Other auditions you will do “Ok” and not feel like your did your best but you end up booking that job. As a Christian actor you have to know that God is ultimately in control of your career and not any casting director, director, or agent for that matter. He will have you cast in the roles He wants you in, and yeah, you don’t always understand why you didn’t get that certain role, but God does because He sees the big picture, we don’t.

Never think you’ve arrived as an actor. There is always something more to learn.  You can always improve your skills and work on your weaknesses. I continue to take acting workshops to sharpen my skills. I recently learned to cry on cue. This was the help of my acting coach, Eric Kline, for a recent movie I was in. Acting takes practice and more practice.

W4F: Gold, Gary Moore, that’s what you’re giving us is gold!  Thank you, thank you.  This is great.  So you’ve got an agent…so you pretty much just let them dig up your jobs for you and you kick back in your private actor trailer and eat your yellow M&Ms and peeled grapes and drink your RockStar juice, right?  Or – more realistically – are you out there still pounding the pavement?

GARY MOORE: As an actor, you are in an awkward place as a Christian. As much as the Bible teaches Christians not to be full of themselves, you have to market yourself and your skills. You have to network with other industry people. I remember getting my first agent and thinking, “wow, I’ve really made it now!” I quickly came to realize that agents have their job, but it’s not always marketing me. You have to take the bull by the horns and get out there yourself. No one else is excited about you except your mom, maybe, and even if they are they don’t have the time to spend just marketing you.

ICVM - Gary with Alex Kendrick

Go to industry gatherings like the International Christian Visual Media Association, the Gideon Film Festival, and so many other Christian film gatherings around the country. Facebook has been a source of acting gigs for me this last year. I can point to three different bookings I got directly from Facebook. Have your own website with demo reels so you can point directors to it. I, again, can point to three or four jobs last year that came from my website. As in sales, you can’t stop marketing yourself just because you’re busy on another shoot. You have to keep the ball rolling or you’ll come off that shoot going, “hmmm, I wonder what my next gig is?”

Invest in your career. When I was in sales, I use to take a little of my big bonuses and buy something that would help me do my job even better. I’ve done this now with my acting. Little by little, buy things that will help you. Some examples I’ve invested in that have helped me are, a MacBook Pro computer with Final Cut Express. Many auditions are now letting you submit electronically, so I also invested in a professional lighting kit and can tape my own auditions at home, edit them professionally, and send them off to agents, casting directors, or directors themselves.

W4F: Your acting process — from the time you get the script, how do you approach your lines, your character?  Versus how much the director is bringing to your lines and character.  How do your characters evolve?

GARY MOORE: When I land a part and actually get a whole film script then I start breaking down the script into my scenes. While I break down the script, I read the entire script every day, twice a day if I can fit it in. I can’t tell you how important reading the entire script every day is! I read somewhere that one of my favorite actors, Anthony Hopkins, reads a script over 300 times before he walks on a set. I can’t verify that, but that’s what started me reading scripts every day and it has proved immensely beneficial.

Of course, films are never shot in order of the script; in fact, on The Bill Collector my first day on the set we filmed the very last scene. That can really throw you if you let it, but I got some good advice from my acting coach, Eric Kline. He told me that it’s actually great because filming the last scene first lets you know where you’re ending up as a character. Reading the entire script through every day also prepares you for starting in weird shooting orders because you are so familiar with the story that you know the emotions needed for each scene, it will also be the best way to memorize.

How to know the emotions needed for each scene I use the following method:

1. Go through each of your scenes and find out your character’s need in that scene. It could be as simple as; to get a drink of water.

2. Next find out the obstacle that is hindering you from meeting that need.

3. Having these two important items gives you the overall emotion that your character is feeling during the scene. Going back to my example, it could be as follows:

Need: to get a drink of water

Obstacle: my wife is yelling at me

Emotion: frustration, mixed with some anger and thrist

When you do this throughout your entire script and make a chart showing these three different items, you get a very clear picture of the overall personality of your character; where he changes and arcs. There could be multiple needs and obstacles in one scene so dig them out.

The next tip I use is print out the subtext in the other person’s lines. By this I mean, what is my character thinking about as this person is speaking, I shouldn’t be ignoring him or her. In real life we actively listen and it’s always best to “care” about what is being said unless it’s obvious that your character is trying to ignore them.

W4F: What is your take on cold-calling production companies as an actor.  Are you for this?  Does it work?  I mean, as a Director, if I’m not ramping up for a shoot, I’ve got no real place for all these headshots…until I”ve got a specific role to fill.  Then I audition for specific roles and unfortunately a headshot I may have filed away 2 years ago may not even be remembered.  Advice there?

GARY MOORE: Can you cold call a director or producer? The answer is, of course, yes, but it might not be the best answer. I get much of my work on my own, not because I don’t love my agents, I do, but they have many other actors to promote and I don’t have a full-time manager, so it’s down to me to market myself. Directors, producers, writers, and anyone else that has to do with making a film aren’t sitting around hoping an actor is going to bug them for work today. I do find it funny though, that when they are looking for actors, they suddenly become as aggressive as we do when we look for work, so they should give us a break, but they won’t.

A better approach I believe is to keep loose contact with them and continue to let them know you are working, where you are working, and how in demand you are……..even if it’s only from your family at the time.  Social networking is the best way to do this. Facebook and Twitter are wonderful ways to show everyone what you are doing without bugging these other industry people directly and burning your bridges before you even get to them. If you aren’t friends with other industry people on these social networking sites, then a quick email after you’ve just landed a great gig or photo of you on the set working isn’t going to hurt, just save it for the worth while times.

W4F: Awesome.  Thanks, Gary.  Have we left anything out that you’d like to add?

GARY MOORE: I love acting and I love just being with industry people. My wife says when I call her from a set that I sound like I’m in Heaven.

I can’t hide that feeling, I love sets and everything around them, I guess that’s one reason I like to show up early. Being an actor is a job you have to love or you will be crushed like a soda can. It’s so full of rejection and hard work, but the rewards are so great, especially when you do work that really speaks to people and relates God’s message. Just this past year, I ran into a lady at a grocery store who said, their daughter came to know the Lord after their church showed, “When Silence Speaks.” I’ve had the chance to run into others through the years that have said similar nice things. As an actor, there’s no better feeling in the world. I don’t know why God would use me as an actor, I’m far from perfect and often screw up, but He forgives and keeps using me.

I can’t wait for my next role!

W4F: I know, right?  We can’t either.  Thanks again, Gary.

###

March 20, 2010 Gary Moore will be teaching an Actor’s Workshop geared toward ages 12 – Adult in Fayetteville, NC.

( Technique for Beginner – Highly Experienced Actors and Actresses)

COSTt: $100 for first family member; $90 for each additional family member
PLACE: Tallywood Shopping Ctr., #223, Raeford Rd, Fayetteville, NC 28303
PHONE: 910-864-7494

Find out MORE about Gary at www.garymoore.me

Okay, I admit, I made the last one up.  But it’s true.  Well, if by “you die” you mean “suffer public humiliations galore.” Anyway, there’s a short list of reads that film and media professionals should ingest before they begin their sojourn into media greatness.  This is one of those books.  That’s because as with anything, there’s a way to tell your story properly but there’s also a way to communicate it ineffectively.  

As filmmakers, therefore, this book is especially important because it inspects the past, it considers current shifting technology trends and the dilemma that presents us, and then casts a sentient eye to the future with predictions and advice.  It truly is a guide to the media revolution taking place.  A sherpa,  if you will.  A sherpa with a Garmin GPS Nav system.  What’s not to love?

Now I realize there are still many Christian Filmmakers and Broadcasters, etc. out there trying to put the Media in Mediacrity (oooh spell check’s not loving that one, but you know what?  I’m leaving it…just to underscore my point).    Again, that’s what Wired4Film is all about: educating to excellence, high production value, caring for your audience enough to elevate the art.

Phil Cooke is a globetrotter and a filmmaker.  He’s been to more than 40 countries practicing what he preaches.  He travels comfortably in both religious and secular circles.  But most of all he’s from Charlotte, NC where Billy Graham (yes THE Billy Graham) started out, so you know he’s picked up some of that mojo just by proximity.  And we caught up with him this week to talk about “The Last TV Evangelist” among other things…

WIRED4FILM:  Phil, thanks for taking time out to talk with Wired4Film about your new book, “The Last TV Evangelist.”  Feel free to not Tweet your answers at 140 Characters or less!  <GRIN>  First of all, I had no idea you had North Carolina roots.  That’s my neck of the woods.  And Charlotte, no less.  I guess that makes you the Billy Graham of Brand, right?  There’s been a lot of big ministries to come out of Charlotte, actually.  Were you around town for the rise and fall of the PTL days?  What notes did you take away from that experience?

PHIL COOKE:  I went to college in Oklahoma, and to be honest, I really think I was driving out of Charlotte as Jim Bakker was driving into town.  We might have passed on the highway.  Either way, it was a good thing for me.  The truth is, a few years later, I was graduating from college and actually sent them a job application.  They turned me down, which is a good lesson – not every job you lose is a bad thing.

 W4F:   PTL is important to the theme of your book because it represents a style of ministry and fund raising that you discuss in Chapter One that worked for a particular season in American/Religious Broadcasting, but not today.  Is the Age of the Televangelist (Radio-vangelist) really dead?  Because I still see people lining up in droves to launch a broadcast ministry.

Phil Cooke - Media Guru

PHIL COOKE:  In the same way the 3 networks splintered with the advent of cable TV in the seventies and eighties, church based TV programs are doing something similar today.  In the early years of religious broadcasting, there were only a handful of preachers on TV – Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Rex Humbard, and Jimmy Swaggart.  But today, every city in America has 5 or 6 churches on TV in their local market.  As long as you can sustain your program in a local market, that’s great.  But it’s becoming a lot more challenging to expand to a national platform.  That’s not to say it can’t be done – especially if you have a unique voice – but it’s just more difficult than it used to be.

 W4F:  You grew up as a PK, right?  A preacher’s kid.  And that usually turns out one of two ways…wizened, successful Agent of the Lord…or demon spawn.  Might be too early to tell, but it appeeeeeeears you’ve gone the wizened successful route.  Why is that?  What made the difference for you?

PHIL COOKE:  Being a Christian is really all I’ve ever known.  I tell people I came to Christ through the stage door.  There’s no question that I’ve seen a lot of junk, but at the same time I’ve always had a real sense that we’re all fallen human beings.  Cynicism has never been an option for me, because I can’t find any organization in America that doesn’t have hypocrites or jerks.  It’s all part of being human.  At least in the church we have something significant to aspire to.

 W4F:   I see your book as a very instrumental followup to where Bob Briner left off in “Roaring Lambs” about being salt and light in the world.  Or as I like to say, getting the church out of the church.  We’ve become pretty insulated behind our four walls haven’t we?  Talk about that.

PHIL COOKE:  I call it the “Christian bubble.”  We actually used to take the Great Commission seriously, until about 30 years ago when we discovered the Christian audience is a “buying” audience.  So we changed our focus from reaching the world, to preaching to the choir.  I’m all for providing media to believers, but there’s no question we need to get out of the bubble more often and get back to the business of engaging the culture.

 W4F:  You mentioned the concept of the Christian Bubble — that we stopped preaching to the world and started preaching to each other.  But is preaching to the choir all bad?  I mean, Jesus said to “feed my sheep” after all, not the goats!  Or is that just a lame attempt by people to protect the ghetto?

PHIL COOKE:  Absolutely not.  At our company – Cooke Pictures in Burbank, California – we have a large number of clients who focus on reaching the Christian audience.  As long as we do it without being cheesy or corny, that’s fine.  There’s absolutely nothing wrong with creating content for Christians.  But we also create TV specials for PBS, and we’re developing a reality show right now based on a Christian humanitarian organization.  So we feel very strongly about balancing what we do. 

 W4F:   I think one of the walls we keep running into with the Christian Film Industry is talked about in a concept you mentioned in the Book’s Intro where Christians are willing to financially support the mission of Christian Broadcasting (and films) because they like the idea of it, even though they disliked the results.  Does that mean they’re willing to put out programming that they won’t watch, but they feel like non-Christians need?  Isn’t that kind of absurd thinking?  I mean we’ve been taught to distrust the Chef who won’t eat his own cooking, right?

PHIL COOKE:   That’s an interesting question.  One of the most fascinating things about producing faith-driven programming is the realization that we need to entertain, but also provoke, confront, and enlighten.  It’s more than just giving people what they want – it’s giving them what they need.  The issue is doing it under the radar.  To be successful, we have to cloak what they need in the guise of what they want.  That’s where art begins.  

 W4F:    Filmmaker Ingmar Bergman was quoted as saying that “Movies are the church of the 20th century” which was a dig at religion being replaced by film, but isn’t there some truth to that, though?  I mean, as the modern church continues to evolve we’re seeing more and more people “called” to the film industry as much as to Pastoral or Missions Work.  Is it one or the other?  Or can it be both?

PHIL COOKE:  I’m a huge Bergman fan, because he was one of the first filmmakers to see the “death of God” in our culture.  He showed us an unflinching view of what our lives would be without God, and it wasn’t pretty.  He’s right in that when I go to a movie theater in LA on a Friday night, I recognize that’s “church” for a generation of young people.  That’s where they get their morals, behavior, and principles for living.  That’s why it’s so critical that we have a voice in that arena.  Now we can criticize that, or follow the example of Jesus.  He spent his time where the people were – the Temple square, the marketplace, or social gatherings like weddings.  Today, the media is where people are.  If we’re going to reach them, that’s where we need to be.

 W4F:   Technology can be overwhelming, if only because you barely get accustomed to the newest greatest thing, YouTube perhaps and then Facebook comes along, and then Twitter…do you ever just want to go become Amish?  Raise a barn and make some noodles and get away from it all?

PHIL COOKE:  I “Twittered” yesterday that media never dies – but the tools do.  Yes, we’re experiencing change at the greatest rate in history.  But I don’t see any scriptural basis for following the Amish.  Everything about the Bible is about engagement.  Look at old testament characters like Joseph, Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendego.   They rose to the highest levels of leadership in very hostile cultures.  They made trade-offs on a daily basis.  But it allowed them to have enormous influence.

  W4F:   Your book obviously embraces technology and the useful ways it can get your church or company’s story out there with surprising immediacy.  But what has that got to do with AIDS orphans in Africa?  Or starving Romany Gypsies in Ukraine?  Or most of these 3rd world countries that wouldn’t know a Tweet from a Blogroll?

PHIL COOKE:  It has everything to do with these issues, because it’s about mobilizing influence.  You can’t solve AIDS or hunger in Africa if nobody cares.  Twitter, Facebook, and other apps are about connecting and motivating people to make change happen.

 W4F:    Tough question alert.  I was surprised in the book that you hold the opinion that there will always be a place in Christian Media for great preaching…is that just throwing a bone to the NRB and its rather large constituency or do you firmly believe that? After all, on the next page you reiterate that this generation wants a discussion, not a lecture.

PHIL COOKE:  Have you ever listened to T.D. Jakes at the peak of one of his sermons?  That rocks.  Great preaching is an art, and I love to hear people with that gift.  There’s no question that shooting a talking head sermon isn’t the best use of TV, but why shouldn’t we have a platform for great preachers?  There are plenty of follow up platforms for conversations that are created by great preaching.  I say cut ‘em loose.

 W4F:    You’ve tended to hang your shingle on the Broadcast side of things, but as a Director, is there a feature film you would like to Direct?  Is that some place you’d like to be one day or is that not even on the radar?  Left Behind part 7 perhaps?

PHIL COOKE:  If I ever sign on to direct “Left Behind 7″ I give you permission to shoot me in the head.  The truth is, all I ever really wanted to do was direct movies.  It’s always been my passion.  But somehow, I kept getting dragged kicking and screaming into the bigger picture of media.  As a result, we’ve been helping clients on a global basis discover their voice and find the greatest possible audience for their message.  We’ve produced programming in more than 40 countries around the world, and worked in both the religious and secular media.  We’ve been involved in a couple of movies, and I’m certainly open to more, should the right door open.

 W4F:  Bear with me on this question because I’m interested in your response but I want to make sure I frame the thought clearly.  At Wired4Film we’ve used your chapter about the Christian Music industry and Charlie Peacock’s assessment that it is dying as a springboard for a forecast into the gloomy future of the Christian Film industry.  But it’s not a “death” so much as an “evolution” isn’t it?  Just like with Web 2.0 which refers to this 2nd generation web development, design that facilitates communication, information sharing and collaboration….perhaps we’re looking at an advancement.  Christian Film 2.0!  What does that idea look like to you?  Christian film in the 21st century?

PHIL COOKE:  I hope it won’t be called “Christian film.”  I think that’s a huge obstacle in finding an audience.  I’m seeing more and more young Christians move into the secular, mainstream film industry and I think that’s a good thing.  I would also encourage young filmmakers who are believers to study the independent film movement in America.  I attend the Sundance Film Festival and others each year, and I’d like to follow that model.  They find the young, unproven talent, and create really innovative projects.  I’m tired of Christian filmmakers using yesterday’s stars.  Let’s get innovative for a change. 

 W4F:  Hey and while we’re dwelling on the tough questions, what’s your take on Christian nepotism (from a production standpoint, not a ministry standpoint)?  Seeking to fill production positions with only other Christians.

PHIL COOKE:  My favorite still photographer isn’t a Christian, and neither is my favorite DP.  I love it when I can staff a project with believers, but my goal is to create the greatest project possible.  Do it when you can, but please don’t get hung up on it.  

 W4F:  Have you ever had to decline a project on Moral grounds?  And that goes for Secular or Religious clients.

PHIL COOKE:  Sure.  Moral, religious, financial, wacky – I turn down all kinds of projects.  It certainly gets tough when you’re desperate for work, but it’s important to know how your projects reflect who you are.  But the truth is, I’ve turned down more projects from TV evangelists I thought were theologically wacky than anything else.

 W4F:  You’ve built a life and career and raised a family in L.A.  What’s your take on being a Christian in Hollywood?  How much do you wave the “Christian” flag?  I mean, St. Francis said “Preach always and if necessary, use words.”  But some detractors call this “covert christianity” and being ashamed of the Gospel.  What is the view from the inside?

PHIL COOKE:  I’m not very judgmental about people’s decisions in this area.  Obviously, for a believer to lose a great job because he made people uncomfortable with his Christianity is stupid.  That’s not what Christianity is all about.  Don’t be a bone-head.  But at the same time, I don’t hide it.  People know I’m a Christian and I’ve gotten very little push back because of it.  Hey – in Hollywood people worship rocks and hug trees.  Being a Christian just isn’t as weird as you might think.  On the other hand, I don’t question those at the highest levels who don’t make a public deal about their faith.  I trust that they can make a greater  influence under the radar, so I let them and the Lord work it out.

 W4F:  There are still two warring Evangelical views on Tinsel town.  It’s perceived either as a Sodom&Gemorrah or else it’s Ninevah.  That’s a huge difference.  Talk about that.

PHIL COOKE:  Honestly, I could care less about those arguments.  Hollywood is a mission field.  In fact, it should be our greatest mission field because what comes out of Hollywood influences the world.  When was the last time you prayed for Hollywood?  When was the last time your church commissioned young filmmakers or artists to come to Hollywood as missionaries?  You don’t change things by boycotting.  You change things by engaging.   Check out the Hollywood Prayer Network.  It will help you see this industry in a different light.

 W4F:    Ninevah it is, then.  Okay, here’s a fun little exercise.  Fun for me anyway.  One of the films out today is the Zach Ephron vehicle “17 Again” about a 30-something man who gets another crack at being 17 years old and hilarity ensues.  So, Phil, it’s 2009.  You suddenly find yourself 17 again graduating from High School.  You’re a film/tv guy.  What do you do?  What’s your plan?

PHIL COOKE:  I would mortgage the farm to make my own film.  When I started, there wasn’t an independent film movement like there is today.  The unions had a lock on the industry, and breaking in was almost impossible.  But today, technology has made producing movies available to anyone.  Make a film.  Tell your story.  Connect with an audience.  Change the world.

 W4F:    Well, thank you so much, Phil.  I’m off to mortgage my farm, tear up my Amish application and buy a Daisy Air Rifle for your Left Behind 7 premiere.  Lots to do.  Lots to do.

_______________________________

You can purchase a copy of “The Last TV Evangelist” at Amazon.com

Phil Cooke, Ph.D., is a media consultant to ministries and churches worldwide. He publishes a free monthly e-mail newsletter, “Ideas for Real Change.”

Find out more at www.philcooke.com

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Cloud Ten Pictures has built a reputation and small empire on End-times thrillers (not one, but two franchises: “Left Behind” and “Apocalypse”) but we’re very excited to hear that they’re delving into new cinematic territory with an up-coming Horror film and a Teen Comedy.   In fact, in their latest release, “Saving God” the only second coming is Ving Rhames returning to his old neighborhood  to take over his father’s old church.

Like I said, it’s a whole new day on Cloud 10.

WIRED4FILM: Andre, thank you so much for taking some time out with Wired4Film.  Being an integral part of Cloud Ten Pictures, you’ve also been a very important part of shaping the Christian Film industry over the last 10 years.  How has the industry evolved and what would you like to see it become?

Producer Andre doesn't lose intensity during a typical 16 hour day on set of "Left Behind: World at War" (2005)

ANDRE VAN HEERDEN: I have been with Cloud Ten for over a dozen years and still to read that I’m an “integral part” of it is a thrill.  It continues to feel new and exciting to me and I think the same can be said about the Christian Film industry.  Looking back at the early Billy Graham World Wide Pictures’ films, to where we are now might feel like a long journey but the intent and process is still much the same.  Like the rest of the production world, the Christian film industry is being affected by advances in technology that allow films to be produced at a higher quality for less of an investment.  But still it comes down to individuals with a heart and passion and persistence to actually produce something and try to have it make a difference.  

Big successes like the Left Behind films or The Passion or Fireproof certainly prove that films with Christian themes can reach wide audiences but just like in the past, for every successful film there are a number of films that fail to reach outside of Christian circles or fail to reach hardly anyone.  So, much like in the past with the advent of video, there’s an easier ability to create Christian-themed films, and more hype surrounding the successes, but just like in the past, the ability to shoot a film does not guarantee the quality or need for it.  

I firmly believe that one film is not going to work for everyone.  Some people are naturally drawn to thrillers, or love stories, or comedies.  Or some people like the hard-sell evangelism while others like the softer and more general approach.  Because of this I think we will continue to see lots of movies produced and many find small unique audiences that enjoy that particular film.  I think this is great and worthwhile but in the long run may eventually stagnate as audiences look for ‘bigger and better.’  I think big successes, measured by general market awareness, social impact and relevance, are going to continue to be rare.  

I’d like to see this change.  I know there are some great, powerful, entertaining stories just waiting to be told that can challenge and compete where they’re most needed – in the general market.  But to be able to do this these movies have to be produced and marketed better than anything else in the marketplace and have to be initially supported by a dedicated audience while the film finds its natural legs.  That all takes time and money and effort and unless enough smart business and production people get together – each with a calling to make a difference for Christ – we’ll continue to see about the same number of big significant successes as we currently are.

W4F: There’s talk from San Antonio of Christians building a “God-honouring replacement film industry”.  Does that rally cry mean anything to you?  Perhaps the idea of a Christian Hollywood somewhere?

ANDRE: I both like and dislike the idea of a Christian Hollywood.  On the one hand I love the idea of Christian filmmakers working diligently and prayerfully to create quality productions that honor Christ.  On the other hand I don’t like the idea of those films being stigmatized as Christian and meant only for the Christian market.  I really don’t like the term: “Christian film.”  I believe that being a Christian means that you’ve accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.  A film can’t do that.  And by calling a film “Christian” it immediately has the audience watching the movie with that as their context.  So as soon as a character is introduced the audience will be judging them on their expectations (good or bad) of how a Christian should act rather than just following the story and seeing that character as a person on a journey.  This sort of prejudiced context (both for Christian and non-Christian audiences) hurts the ability of the film to reach and touch an audience.  If the movie “Ghandi” had been promoted as a witnessing tool for Hindus I doubt it would have gone very far critically or commercially. 

Also, while Christians may line-up to watch films from the new Christian Hollywood, it would in a way exclude the very audiences these films should most want to reach.  Entertaining and uplifting Christians is a wonderful and worthwhile endeavor, but reaching those without faith, I believe, should also be part of the goal.

W4F: Has Cloud Ten Pictures always self-financed its films or has it been dependant on partners/investors?  Do you feel like you’ve been able to maintain creative control of your projects along the way?

Actor Gary Busey receives some stage direction from Andre on "Tribulation" (2000)

ANDRE: Most of Cloud Ten’s films have been self-financed and distributed.  This has meant a great deal of creative control.  In the instances where we’ve had outside investors or partners, like with “Left Behind: World at War” and “Saving God” we’ve still been able to produce the films we were hoping for.  Knowing how essential it is for us to tell the story we want, to ensure that we please the fans of the Left Behind book series or reach an urban audience with “Saving God”, we made sure up front that any elements that dealt with faith or the character’s internal journey, we would have control over.

W4F:  How is distribution changing?  With Cable TV and the Internet and Pay-per-view and iTunes downloading movies straight to your iPhone….is a Theatrical release still the gold standard?  Is digital projection changing the rules still?

ANDRE:  When TV first was invented all the experts predicted that it meant the end of radio and movies.  This failed to be the case.  Then with the advent of VHS tapes, the experts again predicted that it would mean the end of theatrical releases.  This too proved to be false.  People will always like to go out for an evening.  It’s a social event and compared to almost any other social night out – it’s still the cheapest form of entertainment.  I personally have no desire to watch a movie on my phone but I recognize that many people may.  However, if a person watches a film over the internet or on their phone it doesn’t mean that they’ll never step foot inside a theater again.  And I’d be willing to bet that the most watched movies on phones and over the internet are movies that have been theatrically released.  

Does a theatrical release mean that the film is better than other direct to video films?  No.  But it does mean that it has significant marketing dollars behind it (so awareness will be high) and that enough people believe in it to take a chance on it – which at least counts for something.

Director Andre and Mr. T pity the fools on set of "Judgement" (2001)

Digital projection is wonderful for film makers (makes screenings at festivals and promotional events far easier and cheaper) and I think eventually all theaters will be going that route.  But whether the film is being projected from a 35mm film print or from a digital file – if it’s being projected to an audience in a theater, that still carries a lot of weight.

W4F:  What filmmaker do you most admire (dead or alive)?  Would you consider yourself the Jerry Bruchheimer or Michael Bay of Christian Films?

ANDRE:  It’s always nice when an interview question can make you smile.  Thanks.  I have a number of favorite directors and just like with my favorite actors – I like most of their work but not necessarily all.   Peter Weir (“Witness”, “Gallipoli”) Ridley Scott (“Gladiator”, “Alien”), Danny Boyle (“Slumdog Millionaire”, “28 Days Later”), Stephen Spielberg (“Raiders of the Lost Ark”, “Schindler’s List”), Robert Zemeckis (“Romancing the Stone”, “Back to the Future”), Clint Eastwood (“Unforgiven”), Sam Mendes (“Road to Perdition”), Ron Howard (“Cinderella Man”)  and Hitchcock of course as well.  As you can see I have a lot of favorites and tend to admire those who can connect on a simple emotional level rather than being overly artsy.  The story has to be king.  I’d say I’m more of a Bruchheimer fan but I do like Bay’s audacity and ability to create huge spectacles.  I’d also say that while all of these directors have incredible gifts and talents and their own styles, you can’t make a good film, (no matter who is directing) without a good script.

W4F:  You wear a lot of filmmaking hats: Writer, Director, Producer, Editor, etc…which one is your favorite?  Do you have a preference?  In other words, Eric Liddell said that when he ran, he felt God’s pleasure.  When do you feel God smiling down on you?

ANDRE:  Two questions in a row that made me smile!  I like producing and enjoy supervising edits but I love to write and I love to direct.  When is God smiling down on me?  When I’m following His will and putting Him ahead of my own desires and ego and pride.  This sometimes comes when I’m letting the characters take over when I’m writing a script or when I’m able to take all the great ideas floating around on a movie set and make them come together for one special scene when directing.  But I feel that smile the most when I’m taking risks – often nothing to do with filmmaking – for His sake.

Actor Corbin Bernsen and Director Andre on the set of "Judgement" (2001)

W4F:  How do you decide which film project you’d like to work on?  To spend a year or two of your life bringing one idea to completion…what are you looking for in a story?  How do you weed out the bad ideas and mediocre ideas to get to the great stuff?

ANDRE: In deciding what to write it often feels like the project is choosing me rather than the other way around.  I’m the father of 3 younger children and so there’s not a lot of extra time in the day for writing outside of work.  So if I’m going write something it’s usually because it’s a concept that excites me enough to demand to be put on paper.  Within my producer role at Cloud Ten though, which usually greatly affects which project we’ll dive in to next, it’s usually about which story and package appeals to those I’m talking to.  I love telling stories and pitching movies and often it’s the reaction of others – whether through financing or partnerships or just advice – that spurs me to push harder on one story rather than another.  Thankfully though, we’re in a position now where we don’t have to shelve that many stories while developing and trying to get others to camera.  We have a good top 3 of films ready to go and while we try to finalize financing on those we can try to get others ready as well.

Trying to weed out the good ideas from the mediocre ones usually comes down to whether it’s high-concept or not.  That’s a term that’s overused in the film industry but it’s certainly one that has great bearing on whether the film will capture the audience’s imagination or not.  ”Left Behind” has the high concept of what would happen if millions of people disappeared off the face of the earth during the rapture of the church.  People hear that and immediately they can imagine what that might be like and want to see more.  Of course theme also plays a part, as we’re committed to producing faith-affirming films, but beyond that initial concept, the idea has to still excite us and make us want to take the risk of time, effort and money on it.

W4F:   Now your last film DECEIVED came out in 2002, correct?  So where have you been?  Taking a break?  Early retirement?  Haha, maybe you’ve been testing 3D camera technology with James Cameron?  Or shifting into a higher gear?  Fill us in a little.  

ANDRE:  James wanted to hang out and get my thoughts on the 3D cameras and his next mega-project but unfortunately I missed his calls.   Actually, we did release LEFT BEHIND: WORLD AT WAR (I was a writer and producer on it) in 2005 and then SAVING GOD (as a producer), which was just released in 2008.  During that time we also tried to set up a TV series, developed a few scripts and projects which we’re currently trying to close financing on now, and also recently acquired a few independent productions for distribution.  SMUGGLER’S RANSOM (a short adventure drama with a strong evangelical message) and THE GENIUS CLUB (political thriller with Stephen Baldwin, Tom Sizemore and Tricia Helfer) were released in 2008 and TREASURE BLIND (a family drama, treasure hunt story) was released in 2009.  

One of the things we realized during these years was how much we love being in production and how important it was that we keep trying to reach new audiences and keep producing films that mean something.  The world continues on regardless of what we do but if we want to affect someone we have to be part of the game.

The "Left Behind: World at War" DVD

W4F:   Where has life taken you and what projects have you got coming up?  I’m particularly interested in CAMP EDEN because it seems a departure from your sci-fi thrillers as you forray into the romantic teen comedy realm.  Tell us about it.

ANDRE:  I’m the proud father of 3 children with a loving wife and a job that challenges and inspires me.  Life is grand.  As for projects coming up: we have lots.  There’s a shocking horror picture (yes, a full-out horror/thriller), a very high-concept dramatic comedy, two touching true life stories with deep emotional impact, a sequel to the very popular Apocalypse Series and yes, a full-out teen comedy.  CAMP EDEN is one of those concepts that just wanted life on a page and it’s been growing and changing and getting funnier for over two years.  The script has always been met with laughter but the earlier drafts felt a little shallow.  It’s amazing how time can give you distance on a script and suddenly what you thought was working you suddenly can see how it falls short.  One of the main characters became a supporting role to make room for a much deeper and conflict-driven lead which improved the story immensely.  I know that when my wife and I are looking for a care-free night of entertainment we’re usually looking for comedies – so to write and produce one is very exciting.

W4F:   Of course we’ve all heard the Alfred Hitchcock line that “Actors are cattle”, but for you what is your relationship to your actors on set?  Do you have a pretty tight vision of what you want to see or is it more collaborative than that?

ANDRE:  My standard line on set while directing is: “that’s a great idea.  I’ll have to steal it.”  This applies for any production department and also for the actors.  I plan everything out and know exactly what I want and how to get it but actively encourage anyone to make it better.  Often I’ll find myself jotting notes during the rehearsal process because I’ll love a particular reading that an actor will give and I’ll want to take a character or scene in a new direction based on that random “take”.  Or a set designer will bring something inventive to a set and an actor will want to use that during rehearsal and suddenly you have a scene that might have felt staged become something that feels alive and organic.  Often times because we’re on a tight budget and schedule we can’t allow for too much playing but as long as everyone comes prepared and ready to go, there’s usually a way to make room for some extra inspired magic to happen.

W4F:   Can you give us an example of how your build a scene during production?  You obviously start with the script, next do you turn your actors loose in the space first or do you block the actors or are you a storyboarder?  What is your process?

ANDRE:  I always arrive very early on set before almost anyone else.  I arrive with a full shot-list and goals and notes for each scene we’re shooting that day.  I’ll go over that list with my first AD and cinematographer and they’ll share that with the other keys.  But I don’t share this with the actors.  It’s basically a structure for us to build upon and also acts as a check-list to make sure we get everything we need.  Once the actors arrive we’ll quickly go over the scene in general terms of what’s happening and who’s doing what.  Usually the actors will get into it, which is great, and we’ll do a loose run-through.  This gives us an idea if our set-ups and plans will work.  The actors then go into processing (wardrobe, hair, make-up) and the crew will do final preparations on the set so that we can grab our next shot.  When the actors return we’ll do a full rehearsal and tweak whatever needs to be tweaked and then hopefully roll camera. 

W4F:  With your budgets, does that give you the luxury of 10 or 15 or 20 takes of a thing or are you a two or three take kind of person?  Are you using multiple cameras to cover crucial dramatic scenes.

ANDRE:  Regardless of budget I think it’s wasteful and counterproductive to continue shooting something if you feel you’ve “got it”.  If it’s a one-take wonder then great – move on.  (Although sometimes I’ll get a safety take just to keep the insurers and editor happy.)  I’m never really aware of how many takes we’ll do on something but in the edit suite I’ll discover it’s usually less than 3 or 4.  I hear Eastwood likes to work this way too and while some may think that the extra takes may heighten a moment – I think there could be a tendency for it to become melodramatic or overdone.  I know for myself that if I’ve memorized something I speak far too quickly and feel stiff when delivering it.  But if I know what I’m supposed to say and let it come naturally I’ll slow down and be much more present within the moment.  Too many takes of something could rob the life out of not only that take but also any extra coverage that may be necessary following that.

Which leads to how many cameras I like to work with.  It really depends on the set-up and what I’m hoping to grab.  Working with one camera is nice because you can concentrate on that one shot and one set-up and sit right next to the lens and feel the scene unfold for that one perspective.  But if there’s the ability to get more coverage of the same scene with another camera at the same time – while not constricting the actor’s movements or the lighting or set up time – then it’s wonderful to get into the editing room and play around with the extra footage.  For me it’s all about balancing what you want with what you have and what other’s need.

W4F:  In another interview, you talked about a 16 hour day being a short day during production…if that’s the case, how do you survive the shooting process?

Cloud Ten Pictures' "Saving God" - a 2008 release

 ANDRE:  On my very first job as a director a seasoned producer gave me this good advice: “get into shape and get a good pair of shoes.”  Shooting a feature is very demanding.  Thankfully I have a good background in long-distance running and playing soccer so at least I have that going for me!  Usually one of my challenges during production is keeping weight on as I’ll be losing a few pounds a week.  Which means that by the end of production, even when I may not realize it because of adrenaline and focus, I’m pretty drained.  Others may not need to put in as many hours but I certainly felt I needed to.

W4F:   The creative process is always improved by stretching yourself into other non-film industries.  Some directors really get into Architecture or Racing or Cooking or Breeding Gerbils…what sort of interests or hobbies have you got that stretch you outside the film world?

ANDRE:  And now you’ve made me smile for a third time.  Who do you know that breeds gerbils?  My interests outside of directing stretch from writing (non-feature materials), to playing and coaching soccer, to being active within my church and playing around with my children.  Nothing quite equals playing “make believe” with kids who really honestly believe you’re careening down a raging river being chased by crocodiles and only magic fairy monkeys can save you – all while rolling around on a couch.  I find that I’m usually enjoying this and laughing more than the kids!

W4F:  Sometimes you hear about Directors like Tony Scott who use Commercials as a play space to try out new material and looks for their films.  Do you have an Research & Development play space like that (commercials, short films, etc) where you test out ideas or work to improve your game, so to speak?

ANDRE:  I’ve been lucky to have been able to play and experiment with behind-the-scenes materials and promo spots and trailers and infomercials for the various features we’ve produced.  I’ve been able to learn first hand from watching other directors direct (which is an invaluable objective experience) as well.  But I think most of my broadest experimentation happens inside my head.  This could be with improvised characters and dialog and scenes in my mind or thinking of something I’d like to create and figuring out how to get there.

W4F:  What advice do you give to the high school or college student who wants to make movies for a living when they “grow up”?  Where do they start?

ANDRE:  Almost all education is worthwhile in some way.  It improves your life in many ways beyond just fulfilling required reading for a particular job.  However, there are no set rules for getting jobs in the filmmaking world.  Theoretical and practical schooling are certainly bonuses but most people on a film set come from many different backgrounds, education and up-bringing.  The best producer I’ve worked with was an accountant who got bored with what he was doing and thought filmmaking looked cool.  He began as an accountant on film and moved up to become a line-producer and now runs his own production company.  Education helps, so does experience, so does connections, so does creativity and so does a problem-solving work ethic.  You never know what skills or experience you may have that will work well with a particular production.

I’d suggest trying to volunteer on, or visit a film set.  Before I began working at Cloud Ten I watched the whole filmmaking process as an extra.  What a great place to learn exactly what goes into on-set production.  Not only did I get to see how everything ran (or didn’t at times) but also assess which positions most suited what I wanted to do.  Many, many people say: “I want to direct” without maybe considering that there are literally hundreds of other important and exciting jobs in the filmmaking process.  And as an extra you just get to see one-third of the process.  The worlds of pre-production and post-production are also essential and fascinating places to work.  Film is very collaborative process.  If one person doesn’t do their job out of hundreds, the film will suffer.  All those names you see at the end of movies in the credit lists do important things.  Make sure you have a passion for the position you want to land in.

As for what school to go to… choose what you think is the best and make the most of it – Christian or not.  Same with working on a production.  If not a Christian directed school or production make sure you pray everyday for guidance and let your light shine.

W4F:  Again, thank you so much for your time and your thought-provoking answers.  We look forward to seeing your next film! 

For More Info on SAVING GOD movie, please visit www.savinggodmovie.com

For more information about Cloud Ten Pictures, call 1-888-684-5561 or visit www.cloudtenpictures.com

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WIRED4FILM:  Dan, thanks for giving Wired4Film.com the chance to peek inside that head of yours.  Before we talk about your latest film, I’d like to start the conversation about the Christian Film Industry in general.

What can you tell us about the state of the Christian Film Industry today – maybe in terms of places we’ve missed the mark, maybe in terms of opportunities we still have? 

DAN MILLICAN:  I think we have to imitate Jesus.  He told stories for a purpose.  I think if we walk in our Flesh (Ego), it doesn’t matter if it’s going to the mission field or making a Christian movie, it’s still Flesh.  So we miss the mark when we indulge our own Ego.  Do I think it was God’s purpose for me to make Imposter?  Yes.  Did I allow some Ego in?  Yes.  Do I need to die to that?  Yes. 

So how that ties in to the original question-what we *don’t* need is more ego driven Christian films and filmmaking.  We don’t need ego films dressed up in religiosity (“yeah, but it’s for evangelism!”).  You can look at quality and compare Christian Filmmaking to the music industry.  Twenty years ago, Christian music had a reputation for being pretty poorly done.  That has changed in music.  But is quality the be-all and end-all?  I’ve been to a church that hires professional orchestra for its Sunday morning worship.  I’ve been to a small country church where the guy with the guitar has little rhythm.  But he worships.  I’d pick that service over the big church one every time.  It’s genuine (truth).  That’s far more important than quality.

"The Imposter "The Imposter" Director of Photography Ron Gonzalez on a Panasonic HVX200 sets up during rehearsal.

You can look at the “Hokey” factor.  This is more relevant, because I define “Hokey” as being “on the nose (OTN)” and not genuine (not truth).  Face it, Christian movies have a huge “Hokey” reputation.  Dialog is written to say what you really mean.  When does that really happen?  Rarely.  People talk in subtext.  If I tell someone “yeah let’s get together sometime for lunch” but I really mean, “I hope I never see you again” that’s subtext and it’s where most real dialog exists.  But amateur writers actually write the line “I hope I never see you again” and the movie just doesn’t ring true. 

Christian movies are extremely challenging in this area because so much of the conflict is internal and how do you reveal that to the audience?  The easy solution is to resort to throwing in exposition and OTN comments so that the viewer won’t be confused as to what the character is going through.  Or you can work hard at the character showing the internal conflict, not just telling.  It’s the old Hitchcock quote “I only resort to dialog when all else fails.”

I’ve made four feature films, but only the last one is a “Christian” film.  Many aspiring filmmakers tell me “I want to make movies that reach both the secular and Christian audience.”  My answer is that usually you will fail to hit either with that goal.  You’ll wind up with a  movie too churchy for the world and to worldly for the church.  So I think that strategy is inherently prone to failure. 

Another strategy (the Emergent church is doing this strategy) is to go undercover.  Make worldly movies with a (very) subtle message.  Even though I don’t prescribe to Emergent theology, this is what I did with the previous films.  But when I started Imposter, with the clear objective it would be for the church, to be played in the church and for churched people, I got turned down from some Christians because they didn’t want to be associated with a blatantly Christian project–they were undercover working to fix this cultures’ moral bankruptcy. 

I was even told by one that they were following the Gay/Lesbian model… thirty years ago G/L was totally socially unaccepted, now with the pervasion of the G/L agenda in the media, they’ve made it acceptable (“not that there’s anything wrong with that” repeated over and over in Seinfeld).  I made it clear to all involved, from the very beginning of the script stage, that this movie was to be as real and edgy as possible, but it would need to be showable in the church.  I did not make Imposter to be evangelical.  It’s a message for those who are churched and well versed in masquerading inside the stained glass environs. 

W4F: There doesn’t seem to be a real cohesion among Christian Filmmakers…even geographically it’s kind of spread out all over the place…is that a pipe dream to want some sort of unity or like-mindedness in a group this big?  Perhaps a “Hollywood” of our own? 

DAN MILLICAN: I think that Christian filmmakers have as much chance of unity as the church.  Oops, how many denominations do we have?  For instance, just take one issue:  swearing.  Christian filmmakers get into vehement arguments over that.  One saying you’re not really a Christian if you have swearing in your movie and the other saying it’s not taking the Lord’s name in vain, just common vernacular, keeping it real.

Writer-Director Dan Millican shoots Kerry Livgren playing guitar for the "Carry On Wayward Son" music video

W4F: As I read over you IMDB Bio, something struck me very personally.  The factoid jumped off the page that you began your career in Corporate Video land.  Dan, that’s where I am!  How does one make the huge jump (and I’ve measured it, believe me, it’s HUGE) from Corporate Video land to Feature Filmmaker?

DAN MILLICAN: When I was working at a corporate video facility, I set a goal for getting into feature filmmaking (just about like every other corporate video guy).  I talked my clients into shooting their training video in film and wrote spoofs of big movies.  This gave me the opportunity to shoot dramatic and learn the process of film instead of just video.  I had some clients willing to invest in the first movie, so I left the day job and started making movies.  It has gone a lot slower than I expected (averaging one movie every two years).  And a lot harder.  The costs are enormous.

W4F: Yes they are much bigger than most people realize going in.  It’s also come to my attention that you actually have budgets for your films.  You’re not out there like Jack Black in “Be Kind, Rewind” making RoboCop with bubblewrap and cardboard.  Talk to us about using your own money, raising investors or donations…what’s your process?  And as a followup, has the process gotten easier after 4 films?    

DAN MILLICAN: You would think it’s gotten easier.  With the downturn in the economy, it’s really hard right now to raise money.  My biggest budget was $1.3 million but the budgets have been shrinking.  I have used my own money, but I don’t have any of that anymore. <grin>  I don’t take donations because I’m not “non-profit” so the money raised is all from investors.  Raising money for a film is the second hardest part of filmmaking.  The process is to get the entity created legally, get your paperwork, then go pitch people to invest.  Sounds easy, right?

W4F: Riiiiiight.  By the way, “legal” and “paperwork” are two of those obscene words that Christian Filmmakers have argued vehemently over that you were talking about earlier.  <laughing> You are a seasoned filmmaker.  You’ve got the scars to prove it, physical and emotional, right?  Do you find yourself swearing off filmmaking at some point during each film…or shortly thereafter?

DAN MILLICAN: I don’t find myself swearing (then I wouldn’t be a Christian, right?) off filmmaking, but I have been asking God if that’s what He wants me to do.  If he wants me to take a busboy job at a restaurant, I’d be fine with that.  Walking in unity with His purpose brings peace, no matter what the job is.

!st AD Stewart Young looks over Gaffer Andy Lohrenz and crew lay dolly track to circle a scene in the phone booth.

W4F: The good news is, you keep coming back to filmmaking.  What is it that draws you back every time?

DAN MILLICAN: I could get all spiritual and pharisaical and say that it’s my gifting, my passion, it’s what He wants me to do.  But making movies is fun.  It’s a blast.  It’s incredibly rewarding to see an idea in my brain take life and jump up on the screen.  However, with that said, I’ve got to kill the Flesh, the Ego or risk stagnating in my walk with Him. 

W4F: Okay so start at the beginning of the process.  How do you decide that you’ve got a singular idea that’s worth a couple years of your life building it?  Talk about your scripting process, your own creative process, how do you build these characters and scenes and flesh out the world you create?  Do you write with particular actors and locations in mind? Or does all that come later? 

DAN MILLICAN: I break filmmaking into six phases: the Idea, Development, Pre-Production, Production, Post Production and finally Distribution.  I find most people weak on the two “D’s”, Development — which includes the fundraising — and Distribution. 

So ideas come from a variety of places.  For instance, I had an idea for a Christian comedy that I merged with another idea about a fallen rock star.  I tried for more “Scrubs-like” comedy in the early stages of Imposter, but had to cut all that.  I usually do put faces on my characters when writing, and visualize locations, and I’m an outliner.  Once a script is outlined, a first draft can come in a week or two.  But the real writing is in the re-writing.

W4F: At what point are you assembling your crew?  Do you now have the same trusted faces for each shoot or are you mixing it up per story? 

DAN MILLICAN: I do tend to use the same crew, when they’re available.  The first step is picking your UPM (unit production manager).  The UPM will then assemble most of the crew during pre-production.  As director, you pick the department heads.

W4F: After 4 films, are there still butterflies in your stomache on the first day of shooting or is it just pretty routine?

DAN MILLICAN: The excitement of the first day on the set never changes.  But sometimes, if pre-production hasn’t gone well, there is a feeling of starting down a big hill on a shopping cart.

W4F: Do you usually start out with a preferred number of shooting days in mind or is that completely driven by the scope of each script?  Do you give yourself more time with a larger budget? 

DAN MILLICAN: I actually gave myself more time with this lower budgeted Imposter.  Shoot schedules are done the standard film industry way.  We use budget and scheduling software that’s the industry standard.  Day out of Days and One Liners are prepared well in advance and changed as needed.  I knew since I would be shooting HD with a largely volunteer crew, that I could go with more shooting days.  So I did four 6 day weeks, but ended up taking two of the sixth days off.  So 22 shooting days.  My previous film, Striking Range with Lou Diamond Phillips was three 6 day weeks and we went over by a costly day (so 19 shooting days).

W4F: Do you feel like you’re making your films inside the system  – have you been invited into the Hollywood system – or do you still feel like an outsider?  Does that offer you more or less freedom do you think? 

DAN MILLICAN: Feeling more and more like an outsider.  Wanted to be an insider early on.  But Hollywood is evil.  Yes I have more freedom to make the movie I want as an independent.

W4F: Evil like “Sodom and Gomorrah” evil or evil like “Ninevah” evil?  Cause there’s a huge difference.  Or just evil because they didn’t  immediately recognize you’re the next Steven Sodderberg and usher you into their inner circle and let you direct “Spiderman, part 7″ and an episode of “Desperate Housewives”? 

DAN MILLICAN: <LOL>  I never viewed myself as trying to be ushered in.  I did hope that I could have a break-out and that they’d let me do my own thing. But I’m seeing my main motive there to be flesh (Ego).  I’m a servant.  Doesn’t matter where the Master tells me to work or how hard or rewarding (or lack thereof) it is.

I define “evil” as apart or away from God.  So I believe in various degrees of evil.  Evil is a road away from God.  You can get so far down it that God turns you over to it (conscience seared as with hot iron).  Back to Rom 7:19 “I practice the evil I do not want to do.”  That’s Paul talking in present tense.  So comparing Sodom & Gomorrah (S&G) evil to Ninevah evil?  One was further down the road with no intention of turning back.  So where does H’Wood fit?  I think they live for themselves, turned over to the depravity of the Flesh… Lions seeking who they may devour.  Pretty close to S&G.  

W4F: Thank you for clarifying.  Now, what would you say is your favorite part of the whole process?  Do you have one? 

DAN MILLICAN: I get asked this a lot.  Hard to say.  I actually love writing.  I love directing.  I love editing.

W4F: A Triple Threat.  That’s what they call that.  That, and “crazy”…but Triple Threat sounds better.  Also could be the title of your next film.  But I digress.  How did you approach the shooting of “The Imposter”?  Stylistically speaking, did you have a reference in mind….like on your blog you talked about the influence of Ice Hotels on  Meredith’s Music video. 

DAN MILLICAN: I knew it would be music driven.  I probably had “Rock Star” with Mark Wahlberg in my brain as I approached the shooting of the movie.

W4F: From all of your independent filmmaking experience, has that economy trained you to be a 2 or 3 take wonder?  Or do you still give yourself 10 or 15 takes of a thing?

DAN MILLICAN: I’m usually a three take director.  But that’s with seasoned Hollywood actors.  When you work with less experienced actors, it’s not uncommon to go to ten or twelve takes.   The first three films were all 35mm and I had to be economical (and I had mostly seasoned veteran actors on those).  I remember on The Keyman (the only one I haven’t gotten domestic distribution, so you have to go to www.s-films.com to buy), the opening crane shot of the movie was a pretty difficult shot and it was really long.  Each take was a thousand dollars in film and processing.  So yes, that limited how picky I could get.  The Imposter was HD, so I didn’t have to worry about that.  The pressure is just in making the day (shooting all the scenes scheduled).

W4F: How do you approach a scene with your actors?  Are you a preproduction rehearsal kind of guy or are you rehearsing on film?  How does working with bigger names like Kevin Max and Kerry Livgren play into the scheduling?  Are you giving a lot of direction or are you a “just let it flow” kind of hands-off director?

DAN MILLICAN: I’ve never had the luxury of having rehearsal days.  The best I get is a table read the day before principle photography starts.  Then we rehearse in the blocking of that particular scene.  Then the actors go away and I might work with them a little bit more while the crew lights.  Kevin and Kerry are both what’s called “stunt casting” which is where you cast someone who is big in a different industry, but is not an actor.  My approach with them is to give them a lot of backstory and reasons why the character is saying/doing what he is in this scene. 

The HVX200 with the Red Rock and a matte box. Director Daniel Millican checks the HD monitor.

As a director, I probably veer more to the Spielberg side of things with minimal acting coaching, especially with the Hollywood actors.  There are some actors I definitely “let it flow” like Tom Wright, who reprises his role of Popeye in Imposter (first seen in The Keyman).  Tom has a very long resume and is one of the best actors I have ever worked with.  I trust him.  And he makes me do my homework.  Before shooting a scene, he wants to know why his character is doing what he’s doing. 

W4F: Is there a scene in “Imposter” that you’re especially effected by now?  Maybe one that came off so much better than you had planned when you wrote it?  Or one of those “happy accidents” we’ve seen happen that was unintentional, but left in the final cut because it worked so well? 

DAN MILLICAN: Hmmm.  My favorite scenes are the Foyer Scene where Tara complains to Proff during the concert and then the Chance to Choose music video towards the end of the movie.  The Foyer scene begins with Proff, our wise archetype character, sweeping up (he’s the church janitor) being joined by an angry Tara, whose husband is singing in the concert and making eyes at another woman. 

The first half of the scene, she is agitated and Proff mostly listens.  Then Proff asks her questions she wasn’t expecting, turning the spotlight on herself and not just her wayward husband.  This scene was originally scheduled to be shot outside the church in the parking lot (so it wasn’t called the “Foyer Scene”).  However, that day, we had a bizarre windstorm (you can see it in a few clips of the Believe music video–I left a shot in of foam core flying behind Jeff Deyo) and I moved all the scenes that day to interiors.  And it was the last scene to shoot. 

When we started to block, I realized it would be cool to leave Proff static and have Tara rotate around him, all in a tizzy.  Then, when the beat happens and it turns inwards towards Tara, she’s frozen and Proff moves around her.  Tara’s motivation to orbit is easy–she’s upset.  For Proff, he’s got a job to do–clean up the floor, so he goes around her with his broom and dust bin cleaning.  And the lighting was awesome.

W4F: What do you still hope to develop within yourself to make you a better filmmaker for the next movie?

DAN MILLICAN: After each movie, I usually make a document of good choices and things to improve.  That list spends much more time on behind the scenes things that don’t show up on screen.  Like why did I hire a certain person I knew would be trouble?  What’s inside me that made that dysfunctional choice? 

W4F: Is your goal one day to attain wide theatrical release for your projects or are you happy with all the alternative outlets available (DVD, Cable, Internet, etc.)? 

DAN MILLICAN: I have wanted the wide theatrical.  I have flown into LA looking out the window saying to God, we can take this city.  Which is arrogant.  I have gone from telling God if He would only bless this movie with a breakout, we could reach thousands, even millions(!) to realizing the definition of success is faithfulness.  Heck, He can make a sunset that will touch men’s hearts.  He doesn’t need my movie.  So I’m done making *my* movies.  I truly just want to be a faithful servant. 

W4F: Is it too early to talk about what’s next?  I don’t want to be the guy asking the Young Mother who’s just had her first baby, “So when are you gonna have another one,” right after 18 hours of hard labor.  But seriously, Dan, when are you gonna make another one? 

DAN MILLICAN: I don’t know.  I’ve been approached by a company to write a Disney-ish secular movie with the feel and scope of Imposter.  We’ll see if they can get the money together.  Also, I have a secular apocalyptic movie (I call it my Matthew 24 movie) that I wrote several years ago and have been trying to get funding for.  Or I might end up bussing tables.

W4F: You’re operating on a whole different level than those of us still dreaming about a first feature.  There was a short note on your blog about all the legal paper work involved in filmmaking that I don’t think I want to hear about…but feel like I should.  Talk about the planning and paperwork and all that stuff.  Can’t you just run out and shoot a movie with a few friends and have fun and live the dream?  Why you gotta bring up lawyers and spoil the fun? 

DAN MILLICAN: (BTW, just started the blog at KillingHimself, pretty much inspired by your cousin’s StuffChristiansLike blog).  Yes you can run out with your friends and a camera and make a movie, have fun, live the dream.  But if money happens, friends become enemies, dreams can become nightmares and fun ceases. 

First, if you raise money, you have to have legal things in place.  Then, if you plan on any kind of distribution, you do need contracts with everyone involved.  Even if they’re volunteers.  But it’s common that these “deal memos” are simple, easy, one or two page documents.  You’d be surprised what you’d find if you google some of these.  But for entity setup and such, I recommend a lawyer help or advise you.

W4F: Well congratulations on your new film, Dan, I look forward to seeing it.  And thank you for spending some time with Wired4Film.  Cheers. 

And here is a trailer for “The Imposter”…

“The Imposter” website:  The Imposter Movie

Dan Millican’s Production Company:  Serendipitous Films

Dan Millican’s blog:  killinghimself.blogspot.com

Movies produced by Christians that promote or embody their religions.  (1980-Present) from http://www.BoxOfficeMojo.com

by S. David Acuff

Judges: The Movie

W4F:  Everyone is writing a script these days.  Everyone wants to make a film. But you actually have completed one.  How does that happen?  How did you get financing and gear and everything else?

STEPHEN PATRICK WALKER: First I think you need to set a goal and tell as many people what it is, so they can hold you to it.  I’ve found that to help push me. Mine was to have my first feature by age 26.  I just turned 27 on March 20, and I totally finished the film the day before, so I met the goal.  Then you must have what everyone dreads:  The RISK factor.  You have to just step out and take a risk and put everything on the line.  Of course you need a support team to complete that first step.  I was freelancing in video production for this certain company and I was informed that they couldn’t keep me on anymore, so I felt maybe God was telling me it was time.  As Morgan Freeman says in Shawshank Redemption “Get busy livin or get busy dyin’”.  So I discussed it with my wife, who was my fiancé’ at that time and she totally supported me. My father had come into town for a Christmas visit, so we sat down and came up with a list of friends and family we thought might want to be a part of this and those who had been following my journey for a long time.  

I then read as many business books as I could on Film production, started an LLC, got a lawyer and drafted up a private placement memorandum. I then traveled to Louisiana and held a private meeting where I pitched my butt off to potential investors and 3 weeks later we had $110,000 of the $150,000 budget.  That was it.  No turning back after that.  People put their faith, trust, and money in me and it was the scariest thing ever, but I had a lot of people praying for this project to get going, so I felt confident we were making the right moves.  As far as gear goes and everything else, I just looked back at all the people I had worked with and the equipment we used, and went from there.  I knew how to cut corners in film school and how to be conservative when it came to a budget so I used that to my advantage because I knew 35mm is the most expensive to shoot on.  

W4F: Your film is a unique blend of the biblical-parallel and the spaghetti western.  How did the story come about?  What attracted you to the story? 

SPW: I didn’t want to do a Christian film, because I look at myself as filmmaker, who is a Christian and not a Christian filmmaker.  So far, most of my scripts had bits of storylines and characters adapted from the Bible, but put into totally different stories.  I had been dabbling around with stories of Bounty Hunters and starting writing a script back in September 2003.  I asked a friend of mine about any biblical characters I could adapt to these types of stories I was writing.  I told him of an idea I had about a different twist I had on Samson and he then said to look at the whole Book of Judges and how they were chosen by God to fight evil and draw from there.  At that time, I was planning to actually do a comic book first and then shoot the film after.  After the freelance work halted, the plan reversed, which I now know was the right move.  I then started to draw characteristics from Gideon, Ehud, and Samson, but I think Gideon’s faded out by the final draft.  Ehud and Samson are still very clear though, even though they are just based on those two and not taken literally.  

I know it’s hard to have a first feature get noticed if you don’t have a track record, so I decided to make sure we had a market for the film we were going to make.  The same friend who referred me to Judges, had been watching a Civil War short film I had done and he kept saying how some shots reminded him of Sergio Leone style, so that began the process of soaking in all that is Spaghetti Western.  I fell in love with that type of Western w/ the unique characters and sarcastic one-liners.  I decided this was to be the genre, but we had to put a twist on it.  Mixing time periods would be the goal.  Using weapons of the Old West, but driving 65 Mustangs instead or riding horses.  I then heard about the first Kill-Bill and saw the trailer and loved how Tarantino updated the Samurai film.  I then knew there was an audience for us, even if it would be on a lower level.  

I did look how Gideon had captured Zebah and Zalmunna and avenged the deaths of his brothers, so I decided to use the “revenge” story for Judges, because it just fits that genre perfectly.  Also, I then viewed “Once Upon A Time in the West” and that was enough confirmation for me.

W4F: As our films evolve in production and post they take on a new life.  Are you happy with the direction your film has ended up?  Did it ever take any major changes of direction at any point?  Any surprises? 

SPW: I’m very happy of the end result of our film.  The surprise is that I wrote this film as a drama with comedic moments and then I think it ended up being more of a comedy with dramatic moments.  I wanted to shoot a film with about three characters in a few locations and make it easier on us, and then I wrote a film with 35 characters and more than three locations.  If anything, I see the flaws but people will leave the film entertained and hopefully a memorable scene, one-liner, and character to go away with.

W4F: You’re involved in the whole process from Director/Producer/Writer to Editor/Musician/Graphics design…. do you have a favorite part of the process?  Or what’s the highlight of each stage of the production?

SPW: I think my favorite part is definitely Directing.  Working with the actors has to be the most enjoyable part of the process.  Seeing the actors put their personality and talent and seeing the script come to life is great.  The collaboration process on the set is something you don’t get to experience too much in post-production.  Although collaborating on the music was an experience.  Joe Causey composed and recorded an amazing score and we did it all by e-mail and over the phone.  He really brought the music of the Spaghetti Western to a new era.

W4F: Do you feel like you’re still searching for who you are as a director, putting a little bit of Stephen Walker into each frame on the screen or have you hit some sort of directorial stride?

SPW: I am far from my stride I think.  Only one feature under my belt, I think every one from here I will focus on a little bit more.  Whether it is story, cinematography, or acting, there are levels of filmmaking I definitely want to reach for.  Michael Mann is by far who I aspire to become similar to as far as a screenwriter and director.  I watch HEAT at least four times a year.  He grabbed me with Miami Vice and I’ve been drawn in to his style of gritty dramas.  I feel the more I experience in life, then the more I’ll understand how to convey it on the screen in a way the viewer can relate.

(L to R) Patrick Walker, Stephen Patrick Walker, DJ Perry

W4F: How has cutting your teeth in the short film market helped or hurt you?  What kinds of things were you able to take from your previous experiences?

SPW: The short film market helped out a great deal.  Sometimes, it’s harder to tell a good story in 5 minutes than it is in 90 minutes.  With short films, you’re not spending a year on a project and you are just experimenting with ideas, style, actors, and moving from one to the other.  I don’t think anyone should just shoot for a feature without making short films first.  

For me, my short films were like a visual resume.  I packaged my Civil War short film with my information for investors.  They want to see if you can put together a project before they invest their money with you, so what better to show them than a completed film.

As far as the market for them, there is none.  Other than film festivals, I would encourage filmmakers to use them as a learning tool and maybe as a test to adapt a short into a feature film later on.

W4F: How did you choose VA Beach for the locations and did you feel you had enough resources there (talent, locations, crew) to make the film you envisioned?

SPW: For this film, our best option was to shoot in the Hampton Roads are because all my resources were here.  My friends that had worked with me on previous projects also were looking to help make a feature and there is plenty of talent to be tapped into in this area, so we decided to stay.  We just went out and found new locations and old ones as well that I knew would be no problem with getting permission.  I then wrote certain scenes around those locations.  That was always the Robert Rodriguez theory.  Get as much as you can for free and then go from there.

W4F: Did you feel like you were able to break some new ground as a film maker?  Find some new technique?

SPW: The one thing I wanted to prove to myself and to others is that you can make a feature no matter what area you are in.  My goal for this project is to find my formula for making a commercial feature length film if I don’t live in Hollywood.  Trying to learn the game of financing, producing, and distribution has been the biggest experience for me so far and the hardest.  So I hope to complete this project and have a new technique for young filmmakers on how to make a commercial feature film wherever you may be.

W4F: How did you work out your scheduling for the project?  When you shot? How many hours a day?  Dailies or no dailies?  Editing schedule?  Etc…

SPW:  Scheduling was a little hectic to figure out, but I just looked at my past projects and figured out my shooting ratio.  In the past we only did about 2 takes per setup and no more than 4 takes total, so I kept that in mind for this project.  We tried for at least 4 pages a day and I figured we would give ourselves 24 days to shoot it.  That would be 4 weeks at 6 days a week.  We decided to view dailies as we went along and sent off footage at the ends of the week.  That was worth it because we new what to change and what was already working.  I would have been too afraid to risk our budget on hoping it all turns out in the end.  Editing lasted a little longer than I hoped but that was because I had to take on more roles than I wanted.  As the budget slimmed down, I decided to mix the film myself with some pointers from the composer Joe Causey.  Next time I will get assistants at the beginning to help with capturing and synching clips.  That took a lot longer than I originally thought.  The one thing I learned from other projects I worked on is that if you don’t feed your crew well, then they don’t want to work as hard.  So I made sure we had catered meals that they approved of and I think that kept our morale at a level where they wanted to do anything to help complete this picture.  

W4F: Oh, one more question if you can bear it cause I did want to know how filming a shoot ‘em up in a post-911 world worked out for you. Did you have to make some special considerations for how you shot that stuff?   

SPW:  I studied the Spaghetti Western very closely and they almost always cut on the action.  You really don’t see a lot of blood in those films.  You just see the guy who was shot falling backwards and dropping the gun out of his hands.  So I decided to go with that theory because I figured our fans would want us to pay homage to the style of the Spaghetti Western as much as possible. Plus if we ever needed to get the film rated, we would fall under the PG-13 rating.  I would hate to lose our audience to an R rating for this film.  

W4F: What’s your plan to get this thing out there on the market?  There’s always Sundance and Cannes and a thousand other festivals but what else is open to you?  

SPW: My goal for this was never to have it released into 3,000 theatres or to hit the Sundance winner.  Our goal was to hit the home video market and make it available to as many people as possible who spend their biweekly paychecks on some form of entertainment.  Our target audience was 13-35 males and I feel it will prove itself to be a good audience for this film.  I call it our “Geek” audience.  I am a fellow geek.  I love video games, comic books, music, film, pop-culture and right now this is our market   I also think parents will feel comfortable letting their teenagers view this film.  

Right now we have many distributors viewing the film and we’re looking to find the right one who sees what Judges can do for their company and who will put for the extra effort to make this film available to everyone.  We have ideas to spawn off a sequel, comics, which we already have 3 online versions of, and possibly a cartoon in the future.  

W4f: Right on!  Well keep up the good work!

SPW: I will.

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