INTERVIEW – Phil Cooke is the Billy Graham of Brand

Wired4Film takes a literary turn as we dive into Phil Cooke’s latest tome, The Last TV Evangelist.  Subtitled, Why The Next Generation Couldn’t Care Less About Religious Media and Why it Matters.  Sub-subtitled, After You’ve Read “Roaring Lambs” Read This Book Before You Attempt Media of any Kind or You Die!  

Okay, I admit, I made the last one up.  But it’s true.  Well, if by “you die” you mean “suffer public humiliations galore.” Anyway, there’s a short list of reads that film and media professionals should ingest before they begin their sojourn into media greatness.  This is one of those books.  That’s because as with anything, there’s a way to tell your story properly but there’s also a way to communicate it ineffectively.  

As filmmakers, therefore, this book is especially important because it inspects the past, it considers current shifting technology trends and the dilemma that presents us, and then casts a sentient eye to the future with predictions and advice.  It truly is a guide to the media revolution taking place.  A sherpa,  if you will.  A sherpa with a Garmin GPS Nav system.  What’s not to love?

Now I realize there are still many Christian Filmmakers and Broadcasters, etc. out there trying to put the Media in Mediacrity (oooh spell check’s not loving that one, but you know what?  I’m leaving it…just to underscore my point).    Again, that’s what Wired4Film is all about: educating to excellence, high production value, caring for your audience enough to elevate the art.

Phil Cooke is a globetrotter and a filmmaker.  He’s been to more than 40 countries practicing what he preaches.  He travels comfortably in both religious and secular circles.  But most of all he’s from Charlotte, NC where Billy Graham (yes THE Billy Graham) started out, so you know he’s picked up some of that mojo just by proximity.  And we caught up with him this week to talk about “The Last TV Evangelist” among other things…

WIRED4FILM:  Phil, thanks for taking time out to talk with Wired4Film about your new book, “The Last TV Evangelist.”  Feel free to not Tweet your answers at 140 Characters or less!  <GRIN>  First of all, I had no idea you had North Carolina roots.  That’s my neck of the woods.  And Charlotte, no less.  I guess that makes you the Billy Graham of Brand, right?  There’s been a lot of big ministries to come out of Charlotte, actually.  Were you around town for the rise and fall of the PTL days?  What notes did you take away from that experience?

PHIL COOKE:  I went to college in Oklahoma, and to be honest, I really think I was driving out of Charlotte as Jim Bakker was driving into town.  We might have passed on the highway.  Either way, it was a good thing for me.  The truth is, a few years later, I was graduating from college and actually sent them a job application.  They turned me down, which is a good lesson – not every job you lose is a bad thing.

 W4F:   PTL is important to the theme of your book because it represents a style of ministry and fund raising that you discuss in Chapter One that worked for a particular season in American/Religious Broadcasting, but not today.  Is the Age of the Televangelist (Radio-vangelist) really dead?  Because I still see people lining up in droves to launch a broadcast ministry.

Phil Cooke - Media Guru

PHIL COOKE:  In the same way the 3 networks splintered with the advent of cable TV in the seventies and eighties, church based TV programs are doing something similar today.  In the early years of religious broadcasting, there were only a handful of preachers on TV – Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Rex Humbard, and Jimmy Swaggart.  But today, every city in America has 5 or 6 churches on TV in their local market.  As long as you can sustain your program in a local market, that’s great.  But it’s becoming a lot more challenging to expand to a national platform.  That’s not to say it can’t be done – especially if you have a unique voice – but it’s just more difficult than it used to be.

 W4F:  You grew up as a PK, right?  A preacher’s kid.  And that usually turns out one of two ways…wizened, successful Agent of the Lord…or demon spawn.  Might be too early to tell, but it appeeeeeeears you’ve gone the wizened successful route.  Why is that?  What made the difference for you?

PHIL COOKE:  Being a Christian is really all I’ve ever known.  I tell people I came to Christ through the stage door.  There’s no question that I’ve seen a lot of junk, but at the same time I’ve always had a real sense that we’re all fallen human beings.  Cynicism has never been an option for me, because I can’t find any organization in America that doesn’t have hypocrites or jerks.  It’s all part of being human.  At least in the church we have something significant to aspire to.

 W4F:   I see your book as a very instrumental followup to where Bob Briner left off in “Roaring Lambs” about being salt and light in the world.  Or as I like to say, getting the church out of the church.  We’ve become pretty insulated behind our four walls haven’t we?  Talk about that.

PHIL COOKE:  I call it the “Christian bubble.”  We actually used to take the Great Commission seriously, until about 30 years ago when we discovered the Christian audience is a “buying” audience.  So we changed our focus from reaching the world, to preaching to the choir.  I’m all for providing media to believers, but there’s no question we need to get out of the bubble more often and get back to the business of engaging the culture.

 W4F:  You mentioned the concept of the Christian Bubble — that we stopped preaching to the world and started preaching to each other.  But is preaching to the choir all bad?  I mean, Jesus said to “feed my sheep” after all, not the goats!  Or is that just a lame attempt by people to protect the ghetto?

PHIL COOKE:  Absolutely not.  At our company – Cooke Pictures in Burbank, California – we have a large number of clients who focus on reaching the Christian audience.  As long as we do it without being cheesy or corny, that’s fine.  There’s absolutely nothing wrong with creating content for Christians.  But we also create TV specials for PBS, and we’re developing a reality show right now based on a Christian humanitarian organization.  So we feel very strongly about balancing what we do. 

 W4F:   I think one of the walls we keep running into with the Christian Film Industry is talked about in a concept you mentioned in the Book’s Intro where Christians are willing to financially support the mission of Christian Broadcasting (and films) because they like the idea of it, even though they disliked the results.  Does that mean they’re willing to put out programming that they won’t watch, but they feel like non-Christians need?  Isn’t that kind of absurd thinking?  I mean we’ve been taught to distrust the Chef who won’t eat his own cooking, right?

PHIL COOKE:   That’s an interesting question.  One of the most fascinating things about producing faith-driven programming is the realization that we need to entertain, but also provoke, confront, and enlighten.  It’s more than just giving people what they want – it’s giving them what they need.  The issue is doing it under the radar.  To be successful, we have to cloak what they need in the guise of what they want.  That’s where art begins.  

 W4F:    Filmmaker Ingmar Bergman was quoted as saying that “Movies are the church of the 20th century” which was a dig at religion being replaced by film, but isn’t there some truth to that, though?  I mean, as the modern church continues to evolve we’re seeing more and more people “called” to the film industry as much as to Pastoral or Missions Work.  Is it one or the other?  Or can it be both?

PHIL COOKE:  I’m a huge Bergman fan, because he was one of the first filmmakers to see the “death of God” in our culture.  He showed us an unflinching view of what our lives would be without God, and it wasn’t pretty.  He’s right in that when I go to a movie theater in LA on a Friday night, I recognize that’s “church” for a generation of young people.  That’s where they get their morals, behavior, and principles for living.  That’s why it’s so critical that we have a voice in that arena.  Now we can criticize that, or follow the example of Jesus.  He spent his time where the people were – the Temple square, the marketplace, or social gatherings like weddings.  Today, the media is where people are.  If we’re going to reach them, that’s where we need to be.

 W4F:   Technology can be overwhelming, if only because you barely get accustomed to the newest greatest thing, YouTube perhaps and then Facebook comes along, and then Twitter…do you ever just want to go become Amish?  Raise a barn and make some noodles and get away from it all?

PHIL COOKE:  I “Twittered” yesterday that media never dies – but the tools do.  Yes, we’re experiencing change at the greatest rate in history.  But I don’t see any scriptural basis for following the Amish.  Everything about the Bible is about engagement.  Look at old testament characters like Joseph, Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendego.   They rose to the highest levels of leadership in very hostile cultures.  They made trade-offs on a daily basis.  But it allowed them to have enormous influence.

  W4F:   Your book obviously embraces technology and the useful ways it can get your church or company’s story out there with surprising immediacy.  But what has that got to do with AIDS orphans in Africa?  Or starving Romany Gypsies in Ukraine?  Or most of these 3rd world countries that wouldn’t know a Tweet from a Blogroll?

PHIL COOKE:  It has everything to do with these issues, because it’s about mobilizing influence.  You can’t solve AIDS or hunger in Africa if nobody cares.  Twitter, Facebook, and other apps are about connecting and motivating people to make change happen.

 W4F:    Tough question alert.  I was surprised in the book that you hold the opinion that there will always be a place in Christian Media for great preaching…is that just throwing a bone to the NRB and its rather large constituency or do you firmly believe that? After all, on the next page you reiterate that this generation wants a discussion, not a lecture.

PHIL COOKE:  Have you ever listened to T.D. Jakes at the peak of one of his sermons?  That rocks.  Great preaching is an art, and I love to hear people with that gift.  There’s no question that shooting a talking head sermon isn’t the best use of TV, but why shouldn’t we have a platform for great preachers?  There are plenty of follow up platforms for conversations that are created by great preaching.  I say cut ‘em loose.

 W4F:    You’ve tended to hang your shingle on the Broadcast side of things, but as a Director, is there a feature film you would like to Direct?  Is that some place you’d like to be one day or is that not even on the radar?  Left Behind part 7 perhaps?

PHIL COOKE:  If I ever sign on to direct “Left Behind 7″ I give you permission to shoot me in the head.  The truth is, all I ever really wanted to do was direct movies.  It’s always been my passion.  But somehow, I kept getting dragged kicking and screaming into the bigger picture of media.  As a result, we’ve been helping clients on a global basis discover their voice and find the greatest possible audience for their message.  We’ve produced programming in more than 40 countries around the world, and worked in both the religious and secular media.  We’ve been involved in a couple of movies, and I’m certainly open to more, should the right door open.

 W4F:  Bear with me on this question because I’m interested in your response but I want to make sure I frame the thought clearly.  At Wired4Film we’ve used your chapter about the Christian Music industry and Charlie Peacock’s assessment that it is dying as a springboard for a forecast into the gloomy future of the Christian Film industry.  But it’s not a “death” so much as an “evolution” isn’t it?  Just like with Web 2.0 which refers to this 2nd generation web development, design that facilitates communication, information sharing and collaboration….perhaps we’re looking at an advancement.  Christian Film 2.0!  What does that idea look like to you?  Christian film in the 21st century?

PHIL COOKE:  I hope it won’t be called “Christian film.”  I think that’s a huge obstacle in finding an audience.  I’m seeing more and more young Christians move into the secular, mainstream film industry and I think that’s a good thing.  I would also encourage young filmmakers who are believers to study the independent film movement in America.  I attend the Sundance Film Festival and others each year, and I’d like to follow that model.  They find the young, unproven talent, and create really innovative projects.  I’m tired of Christian filmmakers using yesterday’s stars.  Let’s get innovative for a change. 

 W4F:  Hey and while we’re dwelling on the tough questions, what’s your take on Christian nepotism (from a production standpoint, not a ministry standpoint)?  Seeking to fill production positions with only other Christians.

PHIL COOKE:  My favorite still photographer isn’t a Christian, and neither is my favorite DP.  I love it when I can staff a project with believers, but my goal is to create the greatest project possible.  Do it when you can, but please don’t get hung up on it.  

 W4F:  Have you ever had to decline a project on Moral grounds?  And that goes for Secular or Religious clients.

PHIL COOKE:  Sure.  Moral, religious, financial, wacky – I turn down all kinds of projects.  It certainly gets tough when you’re desperate for work, but it’s important to know how your projects reflect who you are.  But the truth is, I’ve turned down more projects from TV evangelists I thought were theologically wacky than anything else.

 W4F:  You’ve built a life and career and raised a family in L.A.  What’s your take on being a Christian in Hollywood?  How much do you wave the “Christian” flag?  I mean, St. Francis said “Preach always and if necessary, use words.”  But some detractors call this “covert christianity” and being ashamed of the Gospel.  What is the view from the inside?

PHIL COOKE:  I’m not very judgmental about people’s decisions in this area.  Obviously, for a believer to lose a great job because he made people uncomfortable with his Christianity is stupid.  That’s not what Christianity is all about.  Don’t be a bone-head.  But at the same time, I don’t hide it.  People know I’m a Christian and I’ve gotten very little push back because of it.  Hey – in Hollywood people worship rocks and hug trees.  Being a Christian just isn’t as weird as you might think.  On the other hand, I don’t question those at the highest levels who don’t make a public deal about their faith.  I trust that they can make a greater  influence under the radar, so I let them and the Lord work it out.

 W4F:  There are still two warring Evangelical views on Tinsel town.  It’s perceived either as a Sodom&Gemorrah or else it’s Ninevah.  That’s a huge difference.  Talk about that.

PHIL COOKE:  Honestly, I could care less about those arguments.  Hollywood is a mission field.  In fact, it should be our greatest mission field because what comes out of Hollywood influences the world.  When was the last time you prayed for Hollywood?  When was the last time your church commissioned young filmmakers or artists to come to Hollywood as missionaries?  You don’t change things by boycotting.  You change things by engaging.   Check out the Hollywood Prayer Network.  It will help you see this industry in a different light.

 W4F:    Ninevah it is, then.  Okay, here’s a fun little exercise.  Fun for me anyway.  One of the films out today is the Zach Ephron vehicle “17 Again” about a 30-something man who gets another crack at being 17 years old and hilarity ensues.  So, Phil, it’s 2009.  You suddenly find yourself 17 again graduating from High School.  You’re a film/tv guy.  What do you do?  What’s your plan?

PHIL COOKE:  I would mortgage the farm to make my own film.  When I started, there wasn’t an independent film movement like there is today.  The unions had a lock on the industry, and breaking in was almost impossible.  But today, technology has made producing movies available to anyone.  Make a film.  Tell your story.  Connect with an audience.  Change the world.

 W4F:    Well, thank you so much, Phil.  I’m off to mortgage my farm, tear up my Amish application and buy a Daisy Air Rifle for your Left Behind 7 premiere.  Lots to do.  Lots to do.

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You can purchase a copy of “The Last TV Evangelist” at Amazon.com

Phil Cooke, Ph.D., is a media consultant to ministries and churches worldwide. He publishes a free monthly e-mail newsletter, “Ideas for Real Change.”

Find out more at www.philcooke.com

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